Conversation with #foswiki-board at Fri 06 Jun 2014 08:07:50 AM EDT

   (08:07:50 AM) mode (+ns ) by leguin.freenode.net
   (09:04:22 AM) JulianLevens [~JulianLev@84.241.209.114] entered the room.
   (09:06:22 AM) gac410: I'm here ... good morning all
   (09:06:34 AM) gac410: well... Julian anyway :)
   (09:08:46 AM) MichaelDaum [~micha@foswiki/developer/MichaelDaum] entered the room.
   (09:09:05 AM) JulianLevens: Hi
   (09:09:25 AM) MichaelDaum: http://foswiki.org/Community/FoswikiBoardMeetings
   (09:09:58 AM) gac410: We need our fearless leader. Hmmm the topic needs updating.
   (09:10:32 AM) JulianLevens: No Lynnwood or pharvey :(
   (09:10:55 AM) JulianLevens: Iʼve just created http://www.foswiki.org/Community/MembershipReview2014
   (09:11:57 AM) gac410: Wow you've been busy!
   (09:12:51 AM) JulianLevens: I was ready for the meeting an hour ago and it occurred to me that we need to do this, so why wait
   (09:13:59 AM) JulianLevens: Strictly anybody that did not pay on time (after a reminder) loses Active membership as does anybody who did not attend one of the last two GAs
   (09:14:18 AM) MichaelDaum: anybody taking notes?
   (09:14:41 AM) MichaelDaum: we should protocol what we do now for the others to catch up
   (09:15:14 AM) JulianLevens: Technically it could be argued I had already lost my *Active* status as indeed had Lynnwood at the time of the last GA for late payment
   (09:15:29 AM) gac410: Do we need our chairman present to lead the meeting or is a quorum sufficient.
   (09:16:14 AM) gac410: My session is logging, so as long as I don't knock out a rather sensitive ethernet cable from my laptop, I can deal with the minutes.
   (09:18:13 AM) JulianLevens: Nothing in the Articles about board meeting needing a chair
   (09:19:30 AM) gac410: So I think we have to make the decision to declare individuals no longer a member of the association. iirc it was going to be done after one final email reminder.
   (09:20:26 AM) gac410: IMO dues paying members who failed to make the GA should have a lot more forgiveness than the non-payer / non-attendee.
   (09:20:58 AM) JulianLevens: I agree with that
   (09:21:16 AM) gac410: I read the articles again, but I don't recall if we have any leeway.
   (09:22:15 AM) JulianLevens: Nonetheless we should encourage everyone to attend. We can already tell them the date/time for the next annual GA
   (09:22:37 AM) JulianLevens: I think we can have leeway on a number of grounds
   (09:23:13 AM) JulianLevens: Our record keeping is not great. The GA minutes have not always recorded attendance
   (09:23:46 AM) JulianLevens: I do not have records of when a non-payee was reminded and therefore when did that month lapse
   (09:23:47 AM) gac410: if have not participated by attending, or "other means", OR have not paid, shall be changed from active to supporting status
   (09:24:59 AM) MichaelDaum is now known as MichaelDaum_
   (09:26:05 AM) JulianLevens: I was thinking of emailing everyone liable to lose there active status and remind them (one month grace) to pay and/or attend the next GA
   (09:26:14 AM) JulianLevens: Amnesty?
   (09:26:33 AM) gac410: So it's attended, or voted (proxy) AND paid ... to keep membership status. I think that's fair, especially if someone has paid but not attended.
   (09:27:40 AM) gac410: (that is to say, I think an amnesty is fair)
   (09:28:16 AM) gac410: (and I think we just lost MichaelDaum_ ... did we lose our quorum?
   (09:29:07 AM) JulianLevens: Probably, but the others can read the logs and report by by email
   (09:29:55 AM) gac410: Actually the articles state "The board shall update the active members list at least 2 months before the GA. " So we really have until next Jan to completely finish the cleanup, now that we missed this year
   (09:30:29 AM) JulianLevens: OK thatʼs good to know, it gives us some grace
   (09:30:47 AM) gac410: So giving everyone a grace period / reminder, and warning that 2015 GA presence or proxy should be plenty of time.
   (09:31:11 AM) JulianLevens: Exactly
   (09:31:43 AM) gac410: So paid members just have to submit a proxy to remain active. Non-paid need to pay + attend.
   (09:32:45 AM) JulianLevens: We also need to ensure the Agenda is ready promptly. That way proxy voters can still *participate* knowing full well whatʼs happening in advance
   (09:33:27 AM) gac410: We have a year to be ready, but yes good point :)
   (09:34:00 AM) JulianLevens: I think were in agreement on this issue, just need to others to assent
   (09:34:31 AM) JulianLevens: Nonetheless, Iʼll write a draft email for everyone to comment on
   (09:34:44 AM) gac410: Should we drop anyone who has *never* paid or attended. I don't think they deserve a grace period
   (09:36:45 AM) JulianLevens: I think anyone who has paid in 2013 still has grace, 2012 must be dropped
   (09:36:59 AM) JulianLevens: 2012 and earlier
   (09:37:49 AM) JulianLevens: Note that only ArthurClemens and KipLubliner attended a recent GA but neither of them have ever paid
   (09:39:00 AM) JulianLevens: We should offer people the option to reapply for membership at the next GA
   (09:39:16 AM) gac410: I think ArthurClemens has formally left the project.
   (09:39:53 AM) JulianLevens: How do you *formally* do that?
   (09:42:40 AM) JulianLevens: In fact we could probably create a provisional Agenda topic for next years GA now. Thus allowing anybody to ask to become a member (again)
   (09:42:45 AM) gac410: Hm maybe not. I thought I remember him saying that he'd no longer be active, went to pursue a startup or something.
   (09:43:13 AM) gac410: Though he was willing to come back to translate a bit for 1.1.9
   (09:44:04 AM) JulianLevens: OK, in that case Iʼd rather email him with everyone else. We should also offer the option to formally retire: either from Active to Supporting or no membership at all
   (09:44:43 AM) gac410: That sounds reasonable. I assume if they are on the list that means that they did "apply" for membership at one point.
   (09:45:20 AM) JulianLevens: Exactly
   (09:45:33 AM) JulianLevens: Moving on ...
   (09:45:54 AM) JulianLevens: I noticed that we are supposed to elect a deputy chair
   (09:46:35 AM) gac410: One quick addl. though. Members are never dropped from what I could read. They move to "supporting" status but are not active unless paid & present
   (09:46:37 AM) JulianLevens: But that will have to wait until all of us are in attendance
   (09:47:21 AM) JulianLevens: Yes, but if someone wantʼs to be removed could we really refuse?
   (09:48:22 AM) gac410: No, if they ask to leave that's fine. I was just commenting on what the articles say. I didn't see where it says that names are removed based upon some criteria.
   (09:48:38 AM) JulianLevens: Agreed
   (09:49:27 AM) gac410: So we could add a column to your membership page, with an active checkmark. Present on the list implies supporting.
   (09:50:42 AM) JulianLevens: Yes I like that. In fact I think it needs more TLC in general
   (09:51:50 AM) JulianLevens: In fact my actions are to complete that page, create a list of people to email and a draft email for everyone else to review
   (09:52:43 AM) MichaelDaum_ is now known as MichaelDaum
   (09:52:52 AM) ***MichaelDaum finished the phone call
   (09:53:00 AM) gac410: Did we have minutes from our last board meeting. If we do, it's named wrong, doesn't show on the search.
   (09:53:01 AM) JulianLevens: My only other point from my notes was to upload a pic of myself onto f.o now Iʼm a board member thatʼs seems right and proper
   (09:53:35 AM) JulianLevens: http://www.foswiki.org/Community/AssociationBoardMinutes20140523
   (09:53:58 AM) MichaelDaum: the meetings are listed at pos 7 in the search
   (09:54:30 AM) gac410: Ahh... strange. I did a shift-reload and up they popped. I was looking at a page from 2010
   (09:54:58 AM) JulianLevens: MichaelDaum are you reviewing our discussion?
   (09:55:00 AM) gac410: Ah ha. MichaelDaum updated the page.
   (09:55:07 AM) MichaelDaum: yes ... sec
   (09:55:20 AM) MichaelDaum: does anybody capture notes?
   (09:55:37 AM) gac410: I'm logging so I can post a minutes page.
   (09:56:03 AM) MichaelDaum: thanks. logs are fine but a summary if decisions and next action points are better.
   (09:56:03 AM) gac410: And attach the log like I did with the release meeting page
   (09:56:17 AM) gac410: Yes. That's what I meant.
   (09:56:46 AM) MichaelDaum: +1 on members that last payed 2012
   (09:56:57 AM) MichaelDaum: however
   (09:57:17 AM) MichaelDaum: we said that we would email any candidate to be downgraded to supportive member beforehand
   (09:57:49 AM) gac410: yes. Julian said he'd send us a draft to agree on before he sends it.
   (09:57:59 AM) MichaelDaum: so what we can do now is to compile a candidate list
   (09:58:16 AM) MichaelDaum: probably at MembershipReview2014
   (09:59:09 AM) gac410: The "Founders" the articles are a bit fuzzy, but are they automatically voting members regardless of paid status?
   (09:59:25 AM) MichaelDaum: not that I know
   (09:59:40 AM) MichaelDaum: also: is it payments or ga attendance?
   (09:59:54 AM) gac410: Okay, so they can get dropped to supporting as well. It's payment AND ga attendance
   (10:00:09 AM) gac410: Need both to be considered active.
   (10:00:21 AM) gac410: well attendance or proxy.
   (10:00:23 AM) MichaelDaum: ah ok ... got a link to the payments page?
   (10:00:30 AM) MichaelDaum: sure
   (10:01:11 AM) MichaelDaum: got it: http://foswiki.org/Community/Finance/WebHome
   (10:03:39 AM) JulianLevens: The membership review topic started life as a cut and paste for the CurrentFoswikiMembers topic, which in turn is I believe OliverKruegerʼs summary of all the payments people have made
   (10:03:41 AM) MichaelDaum: and her: http://foswiki.org/Community/CurrentFoswikiMembers
   (10:04:34 AM) MichaelDaum: right: so we now need to collect all members that didnʼt pay or attend the ga since 2012, right?
   (10:04:42 AM) JulianLevens: Iʼve added any missing "at least one time active members" and added GA attendance
   (10:05:01 AM) JulianLevens: http://www.foswiki.org/Community/MembershipReview2014
   (10:05:54 AM) MichaelDaum: an extra column with a %X% ?
   (10:06:07 AM) MichaelDaum: while deleting the Founder col
   (10:06:24 AM) gac410: So if you can, add a column (sortable) *Status* which will be "Active", "Supporting" "Retired" ( Retired only if user asks to dropped? (
   (10:06:43 AM) JulianLevens: gac410 +1
   (10:06:53 AM) MichaelDaum: ok letʼs go
   (10:07:18 AM) gac410: "let's go" ??? Adjourn? Move on? ???
   (10:08:08 AM) gac410: We are coming up on 1 hour, missing 2 of 5. So unless any other pending business, we can probably adjourn
   (10:09:15 AM) JulianLevens: I will take on preparing the list to email and the draft email. Iʼll send this out to the board and we can give it final approval or not at our next meeting
   (10:10:11 AM) JulianLevens: Shall I create a provisional GA agenda for next year as well. So, I can refer to this in the email?
   (10:10:36 AM) gac410: Next meeting... 2 weeks? that will be the 20th.
   (10:11:07 AM) JulianLevens: Thatʼs good for me
   (10:11:10 AM) gac410: Provisional agenda. Sure,
   (10:12:07 AM) JulianLevens: Good
   (10:12:38 AM) gac410: We should ask Paul and Lynnwood if something would work out better for time.
   (10:13:01 AM) gac410: 1300 is really late for Paul. I'm willing to shoot for 1200z if it would work better for him.
   (10:13:06 AM) gac410: But it
   (10:13:36 AM) JulianLevens: Iʼm flexible
   (10:13:43 AM) gac410: er But its early for Lynnwood and me. 8 am is not *that* early
   (10:14:43 AM) gac410: The other possibility is just do this by email. Do we need to actually meet on IRC or can we approve your draft by email.
   (10:15:14 AM) gac410: I don't think we have any vote actions pending now. Any membership change needs to be done after the reminder.
   (10:16:00 AM) JulianLevens: Thatʼs true. We do need to elect a deputy but that could also be via email
   (10:16:37 AM) JulianLevens: BTW, Iʼm awaiting more feedback from Oliver regarding the banking situation, but I think something will work out
   (10:18:08 AM) JulianLevens: Adjourn +1
   (10:18:44 AM) MichaelDaum: Iʼve set the status to "marked" on those that I spotted are downgrade candidates: please review
   (10:19:24 AM) gac410: Okay. Oh... found a Membership Termination clause in articles. Members may withdraw by email w/ 2 weeks notice.. Membership is "terminated" by loss of legal status, death, etc.
   (10:20:35 AM) MichaelDaum: what about people like AlexisHazell
   (10:20:45 AM) MichaelDaum: last payment 2013, no ga attended
   (10:21:10 AM) gac410: MichaelDaum - anyone who has never attended a GA is "marked" as well. So that would include Alexis and a bunch of others.
   (10:21:22 AM) MichaelDaum: okay. updating ...
   (10:21:29 AM) JulianLevens: I think we may need a different list and different email
   (10:21:50 AM) gac410: Though Julian proposed giving them a grace period to the next GA (right julian? )
   (10:21:52 AM) MichaelDaum: AlexanderStoffers: payed for 2014: no ga ever attended
   (10:22:09 AM) gac410: All they technically need to do is provide proxy to the ga, not actually attend.
   (10:22:40 AM) MichaelDaum: could you point me to the part where it says: attendance to ga required?
   (10:23:07 AM) MichaelDaum: this feels strange. or at least I donʼt remember this constraint anymore ...
   (10:23:24 AM) gac410: It's in the articles. hang on I'l get the paragraph
   (10:23:55 AM) gac410: Article 5 paragraph 4
   (10:25:22 AM) JulianLevens: I think the actual requirement is GA participation, where participation is attendance or proxy voting
   (10:25:51 AM) gac410: Yes. Attend or proxy. So it's not particularly onerous, but we have not done a good job of soliciting proxy iirc
   (10:26:15 AM) gac410: So the suggestion to let that slide and push for proxy / attendance in 2015 sounds reasonable to me.
   (10:26:46 AM) JulianLevens: That also implies that we need to carefully record attendance and/or proxy voting at each GA
   (10:27:10 AM) MichaelDaum: (i) has not participated in two consecutive General Assembly meetings and has not exercised his or her voting rights by other means or (ii) has not paid the membership fee
   (10:27:42 AM) gac410: Right. Shall be dropped if: so they need to do both to remain active.
   (10:29:20 AM) MichaelDaum: 13 ative left
   (10:29:48 AM) MichaelDaum: please double-check http://www.foswiki.org/Community/MembershipReview2014?sortcol=2;table=1;up=0#sorted_table
   (10:30:31 AM) MichaelDaum: "marked" -> will receive an email
   (10:30:38 AM) JulianLevens: Yes, I will write the email to sell the need to participate
   (10:31:22 AM) MichaelDaum: will then be switched to "supporting" or even "dropped" .... back to "active" if promising to attend the next ga?
   (10:31:38 AM) gac410: So anyone who paid in 2014, should be asked to submit a proxy for 2015. And we should remember to solicit proxy *especially* from those members next year.
   (10:32:02 AM) JulianLevens: Agreed
   (10:32:14 AM) gac410: I don't think we drop anyone unless they request to withdraw. Or die. :)
   (10:32:34 AM) MichaelDaum: Julian, please also add a note to the email in case we did an error and failed to track payments or attendance
   (10:32:48 AM) JulianLevens: Good point
   (10:33:24 AM) MichaelDaum: so people can reply "wait, i did attend/pay"
   (10:34:11 AM) JulianLevens: Thatʼs fair
   (10:34:33 AM) MichaelDaum: maybe an explanation of what "supporting member" means: same rights as avtive members but no voting rights during ga anymore
   (10:34:55 AM) gac410: Yes.
   (10:35:22 AM) MichaelDaum: so those people that only pay in the best intentions are in exactly the status reflecting their contributions
   (10:36:24 AM) gac410: Basically a supporting member is anyone who ever "applied for" membership Paying means you are eligible to vote. Vote (or proxy) means you are "active"
   (10:36:52 AM) MichaelDaum: folks, letʼs finish up our cozy coming together. Iʼve got work ahead before calling it a weekend.
   (10:37:04 AM) gac410: Very low bar to be supporting.
   (10:37:08 AM) gac410: +1. Move to adjourn
   (10:37:21 AM) JulianLevens: +1. To adjourn
   (10:37:36 AM) JulianLevens: Thanks very much, good progress
   (10:37:52 AM) gac410: That's it. I'll work on the minutes. next action is email follow-up, no meeting, right?