14:39 |
Joining chat room... |
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Started talking in foswiki-release on Monday 18/05/2015 14:39:23 |
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Started talking in foswiki-release on Monday 18/05/2015 14:39:23 |
14:40 |
-> jomo has joined foswiki-release |
14:42 |
-> gac410 has joined foswiki-release |
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gac410 |
hi all ... i have a few minutes this morning, so figured I'd step in. Can't stay long though. |
14:44 |
gac410 |
I won't be taking minutes or keep the logs, so someone else please handle that please. |
14:46 |
CDot |
sure, can do, but there seems a lack of participation... |
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CDot has tried a couple of kicks on #foswiki, to no avail |
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JulianLevens1 |
No quite, it got me |
14:47 |
gac410 |
looks like 9 in the chat room currently which is a pretty good turnout. Just everyone sleeping. |
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gac410 |
usually starts at 1300Z so it's a bit early. |
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gac410 |
but I can't stay long. |
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CDot |
y, probably wake up if we ping them MichaelDaum_ uebera |
Lynnwood jomo jast andreli |
14:48 |
jomo |
im here.. |
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CDot |
oh hell, we're on BST at the moment, I forgot. |
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MichaelDaum_ changes nickname to MichaelDaum |
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CDot |
hmmm google calendar says 1300 BST |
14:50 |
gac410 |
CDot .. if you'd be the leader for today that would be great. |
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CDot |
MichaelDaum: you are the owner of the google calendar, are you not? |
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MichaelDaum |
sigh |
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MichaelDaum |
I emailed the edit access to everybody on the board once I created it |
14:51 |
CDot |
and did you update the board since the last Association meeting? |
14:52 |
andreli |
Hi, I was assuming 1300 GMT, that would be in about 8 minutes, no? |
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CDot |
you did. OK, I updated it. |
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CDot |
andreli: yes, but gac410 has limited time |
14:53 |
JulianLevens1 |
Last meeting minutes: http://foswiki.org/Development/ReleaseMeeting01x02_20150504, no agenda for today? |
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jomo |
Next Release Meeting: Monday, 4 May, 1300Z ... bit late... |
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CDot |
JulianLevens1: would you mind taking the chair, please? I've been a bit out of the loop on release meetings, I'm afraid. |
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MichaelDaum |
guys: http://foswiki.org/Development/FoswikiCalendar |
14:54 |
jomo bookmarked |
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MichaelDaum |
please bookmark shmockmark or do whatever you want with it |
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MichaelDaum |
but remember it and please help keeping it up to date |
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JulianLevens1 |
I'm not that much in the loop myself, but I'll do my best |
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JulianLevens1 |
First item would be http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13378 |
14:55 |
CDot only uses google calendar |
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CDot |
ah yes. Well, as you probably all know, we have a mostly unicode core, in the utf8 branch. |
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CDot |
There are still some known limitations; usernames cannot include wide-byte chars, neither can passwords |
14:56 |
CDot |
apart from that, everything is unicode. |
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JulianLevens1 |
And jomo has tested it thoroughly? |
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CDot |
testing has consisted of: unit tests, user testing by jomo, and extensive code auditing by me. |
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jast |
how about compatibility with plugins? |
14:57 |
CDot |
jast: core plugins are compatible, as are all plugins I personally maintain |
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CDot |
I cannot speak for any others |
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jast |
so third party extensions may need changes, right? |
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jomo tested it much - ofcourse nothing "systematic" - but found no bug (in the master i found many)... |
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CDot |
third party extensions may require changes, yes |
14:58 |
CDot |
if, and only if, they do something stupid, though |
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jast |
s/stupid/necessary with old code/ |
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CDot |
or they use an external 3rd party that isn't unicode friendly |
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CDot |
I added a flag - $Foswiki::UNICODE - that can be used to suppress encode/decode fairly trivially |
14:59 |
CDot |
there's not much more than that I can do. |
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JulianLevens1 |
The $64,000 question is are you recommending this be incorporated into 1.20 |
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CDot |
I am recommending it, yes. |
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JulianLevens1 |
gac410: Mr RM, and you say? |
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jomo |
me yes too - it has IMHO MUCH less bugs as current master |
15:00 |
jomo talking as no RM |
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gac410 |
I support moving forward if others are comfortable. unicode / utf8 has been a huge lurking issue that's been deferred release to release since Twiki days |
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CDot |
well, there are a few other bug fixes, besides the unicode, but nothing most people would notice. |
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CDot |
mainly internal stuff. |
15:01 |
gac410 |
I love seeing all the tasks marked needs merge. |
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JulianLevens1 |
This was listed as the last blocker, so is there anything else to discuss? |
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CDot |
plus I added %PUBURL and %SCRIPTURL extensions, so we don't have to compose external URLs as |
15:02 |
CDot |
http://365847.689093.cn/pub |
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CDot |
instead |
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jast |
fwiw I agree with merging. IMO it's better to do a few point releases (worst case) than never get this out |
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CDot |
or simply |
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jast |
same for *PATH and SCRIPTURL? |
15:03 |
MichaelDaum |
http://365847.689093.cn/pub is that the specs we agreed on? |
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MichaelDaum |
I thought it was |
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CDot |
MichaelDaum: probably not. It's what worked for me. |
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CDot doesn't recall a discussion on the topic |
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MichaelDaum |
could you please change it to topic= as thats what most other macros use |
15:04 |
MichaelDaum |
path is inconsistent |
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jast |
yeah, we should make some effort to reuse terminology |
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CDot |
erm.... no. To refer to a web dir, you write http://365847.689093.cn/pub |
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CDot |
topic= in that case would be confusing |
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jast |
in that case the consistent, and ugly, way would be having both web and topic params |
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CDot |
I started with topic=, but changed to path= for that reason |
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MichaelDaum |
I can't remember we spec'ed for any http://365847.689093.cn/pub |
15:05 |
MichaelDaum |
where would that point to |
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CDot |
you have to - otherwise you're back to writing http://365847.689093.cn/pub/Webname |
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MichaelDaum |
and why do I need it |
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CDot |
it's used in constructing partial URLs in the templates |
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CDot |
I didn;t analyse every use-case; I just saw it was heavily used. |
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jast |
shouldn't it have the full URL, then? |
15:06 |
jast |
or in this case a full Web.Topic thingy? |
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MichaelDaum |
have you got an example url on github in foswiki/distro? |
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CDot |
erm, I'll check in the templates. mo. |
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jast |
I mean, http://365847.689093.cn/pub/Webname on its own isn't really valid anyway |
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MichaelDaum |
current best practice is web= and topic= for params of that kind |
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MichaelDaum |
as thats consistent |
15:07 |
MichaelDaum |
so any combination of web= and topic= makes sense |
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MichaelDaum |
using normalizeWebTopicName of course |
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jast |
that's not compatible with this potential use case |
15:08 |
jast |
normalize will turn web="Foo" and missing topic into "Foo.WebHome" |
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andreli |
CDot: Would http://365847.689093.cn/pub/Webname not be more consistent with other macros |
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jomo |
and what if someone write ... web="System" topic="Main.WebHome" ... - what happens? (sorry, only wondering).. |
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MichaelDaum |
jast, no topic= no need for normalization |
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CDot |
I don't have a problem with adding web= and topic=, so long as the rules for resolution are clear |
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jast |
jomo: usually the topic param overrides the web param |
15:09 |
CDot |
the only use cases for the new code are in the unit tests, so easy to change |
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jast |
at least that's the standard normalize logic |
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jast |
so probably we'd be fine with web+topic and then normalize on that |
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JulianLevens1 |
CDot is it your argument is that it's a different use case, therefore using path= emphasises that distinction? |
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CDot |
I can't find the use case just now, but it's there; it was the result of a search |
15:10 |
CDot |
I'm quite happy with web= topic=, if that's preferred |
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CDot |
it's not a big deal, IMHO |
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JulianLevens1 |
As long as the Docs make the different usage clear |
15:12 |
JulianLevens1 |
So, are we in agreement to merge the utf-8 branch into master after the standardisation to web, topic parameters? |
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jast |
as always, the big discussions are about the small things |
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jomo |
from the wiki app dev perspecitve is better to have 1 arg and not make difference between web and topic - much many %IF mased on what i have (web or topic) - some cant use the "System" in the topic="..." - need use the web="..." - imho it is better to have only one "path" (at least have the path="...") as an alternative... |
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CDot |
y. I think the lack of unicode in user names is a much bigger deal |
15:13 |
jast |
jomo: if both are used, you can just put your things in topic and ignore the existence of web |
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CDot |
jomo: the proposal would allos "topic=" to be used that way |
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jast |
assuming the developer done a decent job |
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jast |
which I am assuming in this case |
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jast |
anyway, yes, merge |
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CDot |
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jomo |
15:14 |
JulianLevens1 |
Any objections? |
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andreli |
no |
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MichaelDaum |
no |
15:15 |
gac410 |
no |
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JulianLevens1 |
Ok, anything else to discuss |
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CDot |
ok, good, thank you. |
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jomo |
GRATZ cdot! |
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gac410 |
I should be back home late this week. I'll start a beta. |
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CDot |
please test master after the merge with as many evil things as you can think of |
15:16 |
jomo |
will do ofc |
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CDot |
gac410: no hurry. going to have a shot at supporting unicode users too |
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gac410 |
When we merge, need to consider impact on trunk / release web sharing on t.f.o & f.o |
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CDot |
gac410: shouldn't have to, if we set $Foswiki::cfg{Store}{Encoding} it should "just work" |
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gac410 |
okay great |
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CDot |
t.f.o will croak on any failing conversion (not ideal, but there you go) |
15:17 |
gac410 |
I have seen some extensions accessing the old Charset setting. so that needs a search, easiest in an old svn checkoug |
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CDot |
does anyone know where the constraints for the user validation wikiname are set up? (Javascript) |
15:18 |
gac410 |
hm MichaelDaum ? |
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CDot |
y, I searched for the CharSet but didn't find any usages outside of core |
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CDot |
there will be some, though |
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gac410 |
I tripped over one. But don't remember where maybe it was a core ext. |
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CDot |
pretty much anything that uses AJAX will have done a decode |
15:19 |
gac410 |
anyway, congratulations ... this is a fantastic move forward. Do we have a "virtual keg" option? |
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CDot |
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CDot |
it's just a shame it's not so "obvious" to end users. Limited advertising appeal. |
15:21 |
jomo finally could start use the FW's full potentiall (as me is trying from 1.1.4) |
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gac410 |
Well it will be obvous to any user who has been dealing with scrambled characters. mis-sorted columns, etc. |
15:22 |
gac410 |
Oh. I noticed on Jomo's uft8 test topic in TestCases, The one with tables, ssp, etc. The date colunn mis-sorts on the table. Really strange sorting. |
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CDot hadn't noticed that |
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gac410 |
I don't think that's utf8 isue though, maybe ERP or TablePlugin? |
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CDot |
maybe |
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CDot |
are you running utf8 branch? |
15:23 |
gac410 |
lemme check ... have to start webserver it's down when I'm on wireless. |
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jomo |
here will be sorting issues (especially for the locale based sorting - e.g. in the sloval the "ch" (digraph comes after the "h" - but for this we will need to Unicode::Collate::Locale - and this sure isn't urgent... digraphs, trigraphs and tetragraphs are out of current FW scope... |
15:25 |
gac410 |
Okay. TestCaseUtf8Errors on utf8 branch Date column. Sorts Dec, Apr, Feb, Dec |
15:26 |
CDot |
jomo: with EditRowPlugin, sorting is done in JS, should already be locale-sensitive (albeit the locale set in the browser, rather than the server) |
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gac410 |
So it's not right, even if it was an alpha sort |
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CDot |
interesting. |
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CDot |
EditRowPlugin or TablePlugin sorting? |
15:27 |
gac410 |
I think it's ERP, as there is no server interaction |
15:28 |
CDot |
ok. please add a task, so we don't lose it |
15:30 |
jomo |
arrrgh again "Warning: Updates found for 0 extension(s). tick Upgrade cross Ignore for 7 days"... |
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gac410 |
With that, I need to get going. Wake is this evening, funeral tomorrow. Thanks again CDot, jomo. Great work! I'll probably be back doing stuff late in the week. |
15:31 |
JulianLevens1 |
Are we done? |
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CDot |
I'm done, thanks |
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<- gac410 has left foswiki-release |
15:32 |
JulianLevens1 |
These other bits will be captured in the minutes and tasks raised |
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CDot |
thank you |
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JulianLevens1 |
I'll write it all up and attach the minutes |
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JulianLevens1 |
Any objections to closing the meeting? |
15:34 |
JulianLevens1 Bangs gavel |
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jomo |
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JulianLevens1 |
Meeting closed, thanks everyone |