Release Meeting: 05 Oct 2015

(08:17:55 AM) JulianLevens entered the room.
(08:59:35 AM) JozefMojzis  entered the room.
(08:59:41 AM) JozefMojzis left the room.
(09:00:06 AM) JozefMojzis  entered the room.
(09:01:41 AM) gac410: Hi everyone.  1301z   lets get started...
(09:01:55 AM) gac410: http://foswiki.org/Development/ReleaseMeeting02x01_20151005
(09:04:02 AM) CDot  entered the room.
(09:04:28 AM) gac410: Not much in the way of urgent tasks.   One new one I opened  regarding extension installer.  http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13785
(09:05:00 AM) gac410: Extension installer seems to be reluctant to replace files ... currently no idea why.   CDot, you were looking too.  Did you come up with anything?
(09:05:47 AM) gac410: I'd suspect fcgi,  but the CLI seems to fail too,  so I'm rather stumped.  2 different code paths,  same issue.
(09:06:46 AM) gac410: Only other urgent task is a very old one from MichaelDaum ... we had deferred it to 2.1.   http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item12822     Edit fails to save changes. 
(09:07:08 AM) CDot: gac410: no, sorry, diverted onto other things
(09:08:00 AM) jomo entered the room.
(09:08:05 AM) JozefMojzis left the room.
(09:08:56 AM) gac410: that's fine.  I hope it will be a while before we start building a new release. :)
(09:11:25 AM) MichaelDaum: hi all
(09:11:32 AM) gac410: hi MichaelDaum
(09:12:21 AM) MichaelDaum: I seriously havent been able to reproduce 12822 ... nor have we seen other users reporting a similar issue
(09:12:42 AM) MichaelDaum: though
(09:12:45 AM) gac410: Okay.  Let's close it then no -action    and re-open if someone encounters it?
(09:12:51 AM) MichaelDaum: ya
(09:13:24 AM) MichaelDaum: there might still be a red herring in there as the way we currently integrate tinymce on javascript level is ... awful
(09:13:33 AM) gac410: iirc that happened around the time I was trying to make TinyMCE "switchable" ...  which I reverted 
(09:13:41 AM) MichaelDaum: this all needs rethinking when upgrading tinymce
(09:14:02 AM) ***gac410 stays far far away from tmce whenever practical
(09:14:30 AM) MichaelDaum: the editor ... Achilles's heel of a wiki. 
(09:14:56 AM) gac410: I apologize,  I neglected to update the meeting minutes with a summary of our features discussion from 9/21.   
(09:16:09 AM) gac410: We decided to reopen a couple of the proposals for more discussion.   I didn't change the proposal states, but no other updates happened.  I assume either nobody got to it?
(09:16:50 AM) CDot: MichaelDaum: I did an offline upgrade of TMCE with minimal intervention. But you are right, it could be improved a lot.
(09:16:51 AM) MichaelDaum: shall we discuss those here or on #foswiki or offline-ish
(09:17:16 AM) CDot: TMCE doesn't make it easy, sadly.
(09:17:30 AM) MichaelDaum: the new tinymce api seems to have improved
(09:17:52 AM) gac410: MichaelDaum:   For feature proposals,  probably better to discuss "in the proposal"  so it's documented and we don't have to go back through irc logs.
(09:18:07 AM) MichaelDaum: xactly, gac410
(09:18:19 AM) MichaelDaum: however I enjoy brainstorms on irc from time to time
(09:19:01 AM) MichaelDaum: irc-scrum
(09:19:14 AM) gac410: yes.   +1     That can be very helpful,  and much faster (and less editing collisions) 
(09:20:03 AM) MichaelDaum: what we should discuss in the scope of our current meeting is probably branches
(09:20:14 AM) CDot: y, TMCE api has improved a lot
(09:20:15 AM) gac410: Lets diverge a bit,   discuss Foswiki 1.1.x backwards compat.      ya,  branches too.
(09:21:15 AM) gac410: For backwards compat.  I've been working on two paths.  1)  Update Release01x01 branch with backfited fixes and perl compat fixes.     Testing on perl 5.23.3 with latest cpan.
(09:21:34 AM) gac410: 2)  Rolling only selected fixes into a  PatchRelease01x01Contrib   
(09:21:45 AM) MichaelDaum: there are some fixes missing for 1.1.x imporant for rest from cli
(09:22:04 AM) MichaelDaum: AllowLoginName enabled -> not an admin from cli
(09:22:15 AM) gac410: hm  okay I don't have any of those fixes.
(09:22:34 AM) MichaelDaum: wheres the task?
(09:22:43 AM) Lynnwood entered the room.
(09:22:57 AM) gac410: I've been opening tasks for each backport,  plus tasks for the Patch contribs.
(09:23:04 AM) gac410: So a bunch of tasks.
(09:23:21 AM) MichaelDaum: okay gonna add an item for it
(09:24:14 AM) gac410: I decided NOT to create a repo for the Patch contrib.    Since it's a patch into the Release branch,  I think it makes sense to have a PatchRelease01x01Contrib as part of the distro Release01x01 branch.
(09:24:57 AM) gac410: The time consuming part is going back to each old tarball and fitting the patches into the release.
(09:26:14 AM) ***MichaelDaum added 1.1.10 to http://foswiki.org/Tasks/ReleasedIn
(09:26:42 AM) MichaelDaum: and http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13789
(09:26:57 AM) JulianLevens: If our build/deploy process were much much better would that negate the need for PatchContrib?
(09:28:03 AM) gac410: Anyway,  for backwards compat so far I've picked up Item13777 (URLPARAM / SEARCH backport)  Item13775  (CGI Param and -any) Item12616 (Perl deprectaions, but not the {} braces issue)  and Item12414    File::Temp 
(09:28:35 AM) gac410: JulianLevens:   I don't think so.   The patch contribs are for a site that cannot upgrade.  
(09:28:37 AM) ***MichaelDaum created http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13790 for 81n for plugins
(09:28:45 AM) MichaelDaum: i18n
(09:29:29 AM) JulianLevens: Why can they not upgrade? Applying a patch contrib is an upgrade of sorts
(09:30:38 AM) gac410: Well some of it is that we have not built 1.1.10,  and didn't plan to.    So for ex.  one patch enables the Wildcard ACL  ALLOW=*     
(09:31:18 AM) MichaelDaum: nother patch http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13791 for 1.1.10
(09:31:46 AM) gac410: And the reality is,  we have not made it easy.   The 1.1.x patches often made css changes that make any upgrades difficult.   
(09:32:01 AM) gac410: and other skin changes that really should not have been in a patch release.
(09:33:12 AM) MichaelDaum: nother patch at http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13792
(09:34:13 AM) gac410: MichaelDaum:   All of these are in 2.0 already?
(09:34:58 AM) JulianLevens: Ok, I hope to improve the build/dev tools. If may not resolve all the issues you cite but it will at least help some
(09:35:30 AM) MichaelDaum: gac410, y
(09:35:38 AM) MichaelDaum: as well as http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13793
(09:35:55 AM) gac410: The more important fixes are in our heads  :)   Not checking anything into a patch that is disruptive.   
(09:36:18 AM) gac410: MichaelDaum:    SpreadsheetPlugin is backwards compat.  Why would you patch that in vs. just upgrade the extension?
(09:37:02 AM) gac410: If I built a 1.1.10,  I'd probably pull the compatible extensions from master into 1.1 branch
(09:37:22 AM) MichaelDaum: ah ok wasnt sure. this is one I normally apply to a raw 1.1.9
(09:37:43 AM) MichaelDaum: here's another thing totally broken on 1.1.9: http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13794
(09:37:59 AM) gac410: yup  that's a good one.
(09:39:14 AM) gac410: I think we need to balance here.    The ones I'm focusing on a PatchRelease01x01Contrib.  are those that need to be addressed for external changes.  Ie Update CPAN and foswiki crashes
(09:39:26 AM) MichaelDaum: well and for performance I add a return 1 at the first line of noCheckinPending() ... which improves speed by a factor of 2
(09:39:40 AM) MichaelDaum: but thats a controversial one
(09:39:45 AM) gac410: y.  
(09:39:54 AM) MichaelDaum: tinymce is broken on sitecharset utf8
(09:40:00 AM) MichaelDaum: on a 1.1.9
(09:40:12 AM) gac410: master TMCE or Rel01x01
(09:40:32 AM) MichaelDaum: 1.1.9
(09:40:36 AM) MichaelDaum: WysiwygPlugin
(09:40:57 AM) gac410: Okay   well both released extensions in the repo work on 1.1.9, so won't go into a patch contrib.
(09:40:58 AM) MichaelDaum: minimal fix: disable Encode::encode in lib/Foswiki/Plugins/WysiwygPlugin/Constants.pm 
(09:42:18 AM) MichaelDaum: also controversial
(09:42:52 AM) MichaelDaum: CDot called it "dangerous" ... alas it was the only way to get utf8 going on 1.1.9 for a very long time
(09:43:05 AM) gac410: with the PatchContrib,   i've been trying to fit the "Crash" fixes from every release 1.1.0 ->  1.1.9     That can take hours.   NFW am i going to try to fit all of this back into the 1.1.x 
(09:43:52 AM) gac410: So PatchReleaseContrib only for the truely urgent,  or for issues that would prevent fallback if you convert to 2.0 and had to drop back. 
(09:44:19 AM) CDot: Ah, you have to understand the meaning of "dangerous". It means "I will not be held responsible for the consequences" and not much more.
(09:44:36 AM) MichaelDaum: :)
(09:45:53 AM) gac410: We can certainly work on a 1.1.10.   Go ahead and check in all those tasks into 1.1.10 MichaelDaum    I'll be glad to build.   Though TMCE,  Spreadsheet, Wysiwyg, .. I'll probably just pull in the master versions.
(09:46:11 AM) MichaelDaum: yea thats better of course 
(09:46:57 AM) MichaelDaum: updating Smiles and Slideshow is a good idea too
(09:47:09 AM) gac410: That's typically what we've done on prior patch releases. ... integrate the updated extensions  (which picks up features .. but ...  )
(09:47:37 AM) MichaelDaum: updating JQueryPlugin could be more of a problem
(09:47:55 AM) gac410: Why?  
(09:48:15 AM) gac410: I've been running it on my 1.1.9 test systems.    Needs the URLPARAM encoding change though.
(09:48:23 AM) MichaelDaum: we changed some stuff such as replace jquery.tmpl with jsrender
(09:48:42 AM) MichaelDaum: there are some important changes to jquery.foswiki too
(09:48:56 AM) MichaelDaum: that older plugins might not like / newer plugins require
(09:49:33 AM) gac410: Isn't jquery.tmpl  still avaiablle.   I usually install, but don't turn off the deprecated plugins,  and generally it seems to work.   Needs new Twisty and TinyMCE to go along though.
(09:49:53 AM) MichaelDaum: y
(09:50:05 AM) MichaelDaum: what about updating PatternSkin?
(09:50:19 AM) gac410: no.   That one is major.  Breaks 1.1.x  due to missing core functionality
(09:50:35 AM) MichaelDaum: at least messages.tmpl needs a patch for the last minute securitiy fix in there
(09:50:58 AM) MichaelDaum: the "wrong use if PARAMs" one
(09:50:59 AM) gac410: I don't recall what it was now,  but something in Pattern fell apart with 1.1 render.
(09:51:05 AM) MichaelDaum: sec
(09:51:23 AM) gac410: yeah.  okay ... that one really should be in the PatchContrib    as it's a security fix.
(09:51:56 AM) MichaelDaum: http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13772
(09:52:16 AM) gac410: yeah   I remember.
(09:52:43 AM) jomo: new one http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13788
(09:53:29 AM) gac410: So all this ... begs the question.   Do we want to release a 1.1.10    or stay focused on a 2.1 feature release.
(09:54:26 AM) gac410: jomo,  yeah   That one should only expand if the user has auth to run bin/configure-   which I suppose in some ways makes it worse.
(09:55:46 AM) MichaelDaum: I think a lot of people would upgrade to 1.1.10 while hesitating going for the real thing.
(09:56:29 AM) MichaelDaum: it keeps them in the loop a bit longer
(09:56:37 AM) gac410: so.... Yea or Nay   ...   1.1.10 ?  (Compat fixes, Security subset, and backport extensions)     We definitely have a lot of security fixes in 2.0 which would be too extensive IMO to port to 1.1
(09:57:11 AM) MichaelDaum: +1 on yea
(09:57:22 AM) gac410: And the PatchContrib picks up the urgent of the urgent   
(09:57:48 AM) gac410: (And fits them into 1.1.8, 1.1.7 ...     how far back should we go?)
(09:58:44 AM) MichaelDaum: wait: either we do a patch contrib or a full 1.1.10 ... which comes with a patch-upgrade as well
(09:59:05 AM) gac410: Anyone else?   1.1.10?     Lavr opined the other day that we'd be better focused on fixing up the conversion process (ie the encoded pub links)
(09:59:06 AM) MichaelDaum: and only for 1.1.9 as people could patch-upgrade their way upwards
(09:59:25 AM) JulianLevens: FWIW: I don't have a strong feeling either way
(10:00:23 AM) gac410: MichaelDaum:    I see a full 1.1.10 as picking up a lot of fixes that the PatchContrib will omit.     My rationale on the Patch contrib is ... site is on 1.1.5,  some admin updates CPAN,  and world burns to ashes.
(10:00:39 AM) jomo: i’m not a dev - so only IMHO - FW hasn’t enough devs to maintain both -  1.1.x and 2.x
(10:01:20 AM) gac410: So PatchContrib picks up File::Temp,   CGI,  perl qw() deprecation,  and a few other issues
(10:02:50 AM) MichaelDaum: gac410, that sounds sensible
(10:03:21 AM) gac410: jomo,  I agree.  This is really a pretty simple back-port of the really urgent stuff,  and a few features that make upgrade process really difficult.
(10:04:20 AM) MichaelDaum: not sure how much effort it is to kick the tires and build 1.1.10
(10:05:11 AM) gac410: It's not a huge effort.   Unit tests are still passing.  I've been kind of poking at it.    And it also picks up all the translator's efforts.  
(10:06:55 AM) gac410: We did the same thing with 1.0.9 -> 1.1.0,    we came out with a 1.0.10 after 1.1.0   as a cleanup for the prior release stream.    That was the end of life for 1.0
(10:08:07 AM) MichaelDaum: well then it would be extremely cool
(10:08:41 AM) MichaelDaum: ... as a message to outer space
(10:12:18 AM) Lavr: Sorry I missed the meeting today. I had a meeting
(10:13:28 AM) gac410: no problem    We are discussing 1.1.10  ... and it seems leaning towards a final 1.1 release to clean up stuff. 
(10:14:06 AM) Lavr: Maybe be an easier path than making contribs/plugins/patches to make 1.1.9 hump along
(10:17:39 AM) gac410: A 1.1.10 would pick up a bunch of stuff that I wouldn not try to put into a Patch contrib.      The {} Braces deprecation is a huge patch.   
(10:18:32 AM) gac410: But  File::Temp  bug in Sandbox::sysCommand   is a good one to have as a patch.  So if a site updates cpan,  they can recover from a crashed foswiki,  be it 1.1.0 or 1.1.9
(10:27:16 AM) gac410: Okay guys   Any more business.    Feel free to check in *urgent* issues and major backwards compatibility fixes in to the Release01x01 branch. 
(10:28:15 AM) gac410: I'll keep plugging along on a Patch*Contrib to deal with the  "Someone updated cpan,  I've crashed and am burning"  class bugs.
(10:28:39 AM) MichaelDaum: okay thanks
(10:28:44 AM) gac410: Please no NEW maintenance on 1.1.10 that is not in 2.0    This is a  end-of-life catch-up
(10:29:43 AM) gac410: And no string changes if possible  :)
(10:30:15 AM) gac410: Anyone else?   Anything on pending features for 2.1?   
(10:31:59 AM) gac410: Oh....  Anyone want to tackle convering the old indirect object reference code    "new Some::Class()"     into   Some::Class->new()   
(10:32:25 AM) MichaelDaum: argh
(10:32:53 AM) gac410: Support web question... .some versions of perl is causing a complie error.
(10:33:13 AM) gac410: http://foswiki.org/Support/Question1686
(10:33:35 AM) gac410: I've tested up through 5.23.3    Jomo... have you seen anything with this type of errors?
(10:34:13 AM) gac410: perldoc perlobj     clearly strongly recommends against the  "new Class::Name"  style coding.
(10:34:22 AM) jomo: not yet - but i’m now on 5.20 ;) - going to install 5.23 again
(10:34:42 AM) gac410: I asked the reporter what version of perl he's using.   
(10:35:01 AM) ***jomo switched from perlbrew to plenv
(10:36:25 AM) gac410: Okay...    Let's adjourn.   Thanks everyone.   
(10:36:37 AM) jomo: cu
(10:36:41 AM) JulianLevens: Thanks George
(10:36:47 AM) JulianLevens left the room.